Briscoe stepped down as senior pastor at the end of 2000 but remained involved in the church and active in overseas missions. You know, I believe in spiritual strongholds and things like that. Gifted with wisdom, discernment, and a bit of English humor, the Briscoe's bring God's Word to life. Why did so many look the other way for so long? We were talking a little bit about the elder board. And it had all of these allies not just in the media, but among the angelical industrial complex, other megachurch pastors, everything. Its M-I-L-G-R-A-M the Milgram experiment, but basically American researchers were trying to figure out after World War II, why so many in German society were willing to go along with the Nazis or go along with their leadership, do incalculably horrible things to people. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. Hybels at one point had a major conflict with a woman who was serving on the elder board, who was trying to hold him accountable and essentially used a reconciliation process involving some other big names in evangelicalism to essentially run her off, put her under an NDA. Lawyer for Bill Hybels Victims Shares Inside Story. This is what manifests. I mean, you dont need to be trying to fit a round peg into a square hole, because it is gonna manifest itself in bad ways. I would love to see Chicago experience revival. And I had a wonderful experience. Im good friends with Vonda Dyer, who worked at Willow and was one of the women who bravely came forward with her story about her interactions with Bill Hybels. Theres a lot of church boards that operate that way. In the late 1990s, Telling the Truth was blessed with opportunities to expand the broadcasts overseas with a newly formed Christian radio station in London, Premier Christian Radio, which today remains the only Christian station across the entire United Kingdom, with 1.2 million weekly listeners. It was the summer of 2000, and I was a college student on staff at Pine Cove Christian Camp. In the early 2000s, as Stuart and Jill transitioned into minister-at-large roles and spent more time traveling to serve the global church, an additional voice was added in order to bless the supporters ofTelling the Truth. Do you understand what Im saying? It involves a level of compartmentalization that is truly stunning. I just want to say this was not someone who acted on any behavior at our church, but had someone who was in the process of grooming someone else. If you go back through Willow Creeks archives, you can see all the, you know, the authors of books who came in and were platformed at Willow Creek. and Im going to butcher the title. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. Just what I call a deformed leadership culture at the church where certain things became acceptable that shouldnt. Yeah, right. We bought the routine and its shocking. I Is that right? And yet youre still in a megachurch, multi-site church. Today were talking with Pete Briscoe, who served as the senior pastor for nearly three decades at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, Texas, and now consults with and coaches pastors. You have your identity rooted in something other than Christ, the centrality of Christ. It grows on the vanilla orchid, and it only grows in really exotic places like Tahiti, and there are some places in Mexico it grows too, but what is unique about the vanilla orchid is when it blooms, its got to be pollinated within one day. And I could explain why I think thats funny, but you have to have extreme accountability, the larger your platform gets. Churches sometimes need advocates outside their system. When you think about the economic reach of an organization that was that size within evangelicalism, my goodness, even Christianity Today was scared to run articles about it. I heard an elder once describe his role as a glorified sanitation engineer. Many more than even Vonda Dyer knew. The ministry began in 1971 while Stuart served as senior pastor of Elmbrook Church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, which grew into the largest evangelical church in the state. "For many of you, he was preacher, pastor, mentor or friend. But now my faith in the whole institution is shattered. So there were more than 10 women that came forward and said that there was sexual misconduct by Bill Hybels. Its designed to be fought asymmetrically. God uses the faithful and generous support of people like you to continue to change lives through the ministry of Telling the Truth. The Journal Sentinel reported: Elmbrook resignations are the latest to rock evangelical Christian churches. I havent seen a lot of true owning, true repenting, true confessing. Yeah, thats right. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. Theyre involved in their own issue right now. Basically, theyre a rubber stamp. And something else that you mentioned about the board, which I found fascinating was that the Willow Creek board had an awful lot of lawyers on it. I want to share that God used Petes sermon on not being isolated (Ecclesiastes) in our sons life. Happened so often, I quit altogether. You feel that they have to have more of a governance more of a hands on role than a lot of them do. The vanilla bean is incredibly hard to harvest. Hes also the chairman of the elder board and his own church, Bent Tree Fellowship. Theres another circumstance that I became aware of where The board had a 360 Review done on Hybels and his leadership and some problems they were experiencing with his management style from, you know, bullying, abusive style. Its one of the beauties and the deformities of social media is social media is agile. And to do that, we must avoid falling into the trap of our Christian beliefs being pitted against culture in the public sphere of debate. And a lot of us who sat in the congregation and received from them were, you know, duped and we bought it. 1 talking about this. I mean, that is just huge. Heres my belief, Julie, I think the church at large, the big leaders in evangelicalism, we can name names if we want to, and Im sure that people have names on their mind when theyre hearing this, Why were they silent? So Mitch, thank you so much for taking the time to join me today. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. And in the few times Ive spoken with him, I found his insights to be profound. I hope someday I can overcome this cynicism because I need Church as it should be. Hes a complex character. And you made the statement that if you have the character to lead, you dont need a manual. And another womans situation, theyre in an elder board meeting, and Bill Hybels, you know, has his hand on a womans leg, and no one else can see. What makes you stick with that model and believe it can still be used despite how badly that model has been abused? Well, early on in the process after the Tribune article, we had to make a decision, How are we going to fight a machine of this size that is basically promulgating lies about these women and their families and their supporters? And I reached out to people that I already knew within, you know, the watch blogging community. And thats not what this is about. Below is a link to a PDF of the article World Magazine did on a sex abuse scandal involving VOM. Or what is the church think about Calvinism? something along those lines. Well, Mitch, this has been read. And the thing about predators, Bill Hybels included, okay, is they start to do more things in public to condition you to behavior that is inappropriate, and they test their boundaries, to see what they can get away with. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. Your browser does not support JavaScript. I do. Youre its just not its not a matter of if its a matter of when. I did live it. And gratitude is where we must go in this time, as Kurt Baxter reminded us on Sunday. You formed a nonprofit corporation. What eventually broke the culture of secrecy and protection? Thank God I have Jesus. And I thought, I think I knew what he was doing when he named it that, but heres why I think its so ironic. The fact that, I dont know. But before we begin, I just want to take a minute to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Judson University, and Marquardt of Barrington. Well, again, Joining me today is Mitch Little a partner with Scheef & Stone in Frisco, Texas. And yet here we see a church thats ostensibly about serving God, and its about proclaiming the gospel and yet this is happening within the church. And so when you see behaviors that look like grooming, you know, John Calvin, Im not a Calvinist. But other than that, you know, there just werent a lot of people in the larger church speaking and there had to have been a lot of church leaders who knew about what was going on and knew that there were problems with Bill Hybels. I think ultimately, we are still kind of under the inertia of a culture that was fomented by Pete Briscoe, which was a culture of goodness, a culture of grace and its still carrying forward under that momentum. And these men are good actors. Then, I did what all good Christian college students did at that time I acquired a boot-leg copy of the drama and listened to it several times on my own. You can read about them at their website Teaching the Truth. And Ive been a critic of megachurch multi-site model. What I saw happen at Willow is, the board as a unit was willing to dissemble in the amount necessary to preserve the organization. Okay. So, thanks for taking the time and you know, anybody whos willing to take a few minutes out of their vacation for a podcast, I just really appreciate it. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth's media outreach. I know from hearing from men, that that Bill abused men emotionally, spiritually while they were working there. It is also the church in which Pete Briscoe, my former wonderful pastor, grew up in. These little bitty people, from Willows perspective, who helped win the PR back, its a miracle. With distinctly different teaching styles, you'll be moved by the emotional appeal of Jill and the compelling logic of Stuart, as they boldly proclaim God's sovereignty, grace, and love. He said, Pete, you should have one lawyer on your board but not more than one. And I believe that there is some really sound wisdom in that. Yes, I would view it far differently today. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema. I was blown away. He gave me a few new friends here and there, people to pray with, to share with, to be coworkers in some small ministry, etc. WebPete Briscoe is a podcaster and evangelical pastor. When the when the mans lying on the side of the road, naked and bleeding, theyre the priests who cross the street. Everything started to make sense. Mitch has seen church governance from both the inside and the outside. Jill and Stuart came to the States from England. WebHi friend, I'm Pete Briscoe. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. The news of Petes resignation landed heavy on my heart. I hear you say that and I believe in accountability really strongly. So you caught them before that anything actually happened? My husband and I actually bought our last car from our court and we had a great experience. Its so HARD today to know who to donate to. He, Becky and their kids have been part of the fabric of BT for so long, it is Ive asked that question many times. It is a collection of people that we are to care for. May you and your family be richly bleSSed!!! I think he lost it. How do we deal with claims of sexual abuse? The immense audio, video, and written teaching resources on our website help people who are seeking answers about God to know Christ and experience Life in all its fullness. How did that all happen? What is it was Chicago? How do you get people to come to church when there are more authentic people in the bars? I mean, it was a great time. I would probably have been among those who defended Bill saying, He couldnt have done these things; Hes too strong of a Christian leader. I see this culture as similar to the Corinthian church with the man who was involved with his fathers wife. And we need to apologize. You know, people like Dee Parsons, Julie Anne Smith, Julia Dahl, and people who I knew would not stop talking about it and would not stop talking about it for months. Stuart and Jill Briscoe have always had a passion for teaching God's Word and speaking Truth into people's hearts and moving them toward God. Its really pride. As I was working through the Willow Creek representation with these women, the thing that kept cropping up to me was the Milgram experiment. The outside investigation report said something along the lines of, Bill Hybels hundreds or thousands of emails with this woman were, not available. Well, as it turns out my understanding from talking to witnesses, those emails were actually destroyed. What eventually broke the culture of secrecy and protection? So I was quite taken aback when this scandal came out. You know, when you have somebody like Bryan Loritts, who when hes talking about why when he was at a former church, he didnt disclose to the church that they had a sexual predator among them for six months. And so when I looked at that in the context of James MacDonald going, you know what, thats the type of accountability that man needed and was denied. This person or these people were hurt as a result, you have a pride problem. I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. Im still waiting for the apology for the public apology for giving. Yes, I have be disillusioned many times by churches and some leaders. Its the biblical admonition, you know, to hold a knife to your throat lest you desire the Kings delicacies. This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. He represented two women involved in the sex abuse scandal involving Bill Hybels. At the same time. I know about the deleted emails. Pete grew up in a home with intelligent and committed parents: both You have to have a lead pastor who creates a strong culture of accountability. Yeah, without using any names. One of those is that you had your senior pastor resign kind of suddenly. I will always have my faith in Jesus but church especially WCCC has been a huge disappointment. Well, and thanks so much for listening to The Roys Report, a podcast dedicated to reporting the truth and restoring the church. But if you have a pastor with a glaring character flaw youre fooling yourself if you think youre gonna keep that character flaw in line with a pastor who doesnt put Jesus Christ first in his life, am I right? For more information just go to JudsonU.edu. But this certainly raises red flags. My personal belief, not speaking on behalf of anyone else, my personal belief is that that structure is designed to fail, because elders cant elder in that structure. I dont think that he caused the elder board to resign. And its designed to be acretive, right that they gain strength over time. And theres an element to which a church like Willow Creek was a global church, right? I think it took courage. I came out of Wheaton College, as I know a lot of kids do when youre in a Christian environment and maybe see some disillusioning things and I just, it was really a hard spiritual time for me. It is a collection of people. Yeah, they eventually did. All the times something didnt seem right. And I remember you saying. They know there would be swift and sure discipline, if not firing, even with one mistakedepending on the severity of the misbehavior. Stuart Briscoe died on August 3 "of natural causes unexpectedly" according to a tweet from his son, Pete Briscoe. How are you? If you go back and you look at Bill Hybels books in retrospect, Im amazed at some of the things that are contained in his books that people became okay with. Pete Briscoe was Senior Pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years. Pete reminds us that our goal is not to win arguments, but to win people. Well, I tried other churches and its more of the same. Pete is the son of Jill and Stuart Briscoe. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema.. What is it that causes so many people who know better, to look the other way and allow evil to prosper? I think one of the things that happens in churches, from a deformed leadership standpoint, is requiring boards to operate in unanimity or using unity as a cudgel against people who have firm convictions about things. Julie, thats whats so interesting about this story to me as I got deeper into it, I started to understand That, you know, when you go to the movies, and you see a story, you expect, okay, that guys the villain. I wonder, I wonder what effect that might have had on them. Its biblical. The woman had come forwarded, but then later recanted her story. Id like to share a few things as we navigate this loss together. It is simply to feed ourselves. As I look back on my own four years on staff, Im thankful for the teaching and leadership that Pete Briscoe has brought to Bent Tree, and I know that so many of us have been impacted by his attention to the Lord and quick obedience to however God leads him. Multiple services, being able to do it on cue, proves Hybels theatrical abilitiesI look back and feel sick, given all the details we now know from behind the scenes. Pete served as the senior pastor at Bent Tree Bible Fellowship in Dallas, Texas for nearly 30 years, and he now ministers to pastors and organizational executives through personalized, professional coaching. He currently leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling the Truth which he shares with his parents Stuart and Jill Briscoe. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive a copy of Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. So glad to see you feature Mitch Little. Although theres been some. Like if you go back and you actually read his books line-on-line, there are some things in there in those books where you go, For a pastor, that should be unacceptable. But he was attenuating his church culture and culture at large to him in his behavior. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. Okay, how it didnt bring accountability. Pete Briscoe, Stuart and Jills youngest son, was a key contributor to the ministrysteaching team from 2003 to 2021. I encourage you to start praying again and trust God to open doors for you in godly and meaningful fellowship. Okay. For the next 90 minutes, Pete Briscoe enraptured us with his presentation of The Bema.. He now coaches Pete Briscoe | Brookfield WI. The thief knows how to how to get through that lock, right? Hes also a strong believer and advocate for abuse victims. Frankly I find church to be excruciatingly lonely. This is the kind of thing that you would expect from someone whos cruel and not in relationship with Jesus. Volunteers monitored the process in real time, turning over cassettes at the appropriate time to record on the second side. Mike is a dear friend and Im sad this day has come. Im Julie Roys. At that age, I had never had someone in spiritual authority lie or manipulate me. Pete has offered to This is simply a place where I share the message of Gods unadulterated grace through my preaching sermons and bible teaching. So your pastor, he chose himself to step down, correct? Briscoe says that he wants Bent Tree to be a place where people can agree to disagree over this issue. The radio program began to attract listeners and supporters, enabling the ministry to expand its broadcasting to a growing number of stations throughout the United States and abroad. Its about serving God. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. Posted by Jonathan Deatherage on Apr 02, 2019. Well, I want to turn our discussion to what youve experienced at your own church, which is a multi-site mega church there in the Dallas Fort Worth area, because those are things where youve been able to apply some of these lessons that youve learned from watching the negative example maybe of Willow Creek, youve learned an awful lot from going through crisis at your own church. That was my upbringing. So I was really struggling with my faith. Amen. The church is nondenominational and has woman pastors and elders. Through Petes teaching on Sundays and through various conversations with other staff members during the week, God shifted my perspective on what it means to live life in Christ one from my own efforts to please God to one of Christs efforts on my behalf to love me deeply, extravagantly, and permanently. In this Milgram experiment, they found that people are willing to do things under collar of authority and that they would not probably otherwise do. (See page 54 and following) And I remember you saying once that you had gotten a manual, I think it was from the ECFA, and boy, we could talk about them. Growing up in a ministry family, Pete watched and learned from his parents and witnessed the reach and power of Telling the Truth 's media outreach. Yeah, apparently its not going to happen. Funny, whenever I would watch Bill Hybels preach online or speak at the GLS, and he would go into that quavering voice, tears-in-his-eyes, emotional mode, Id stop listening. Its a serious analog for what happened at Willow. John and Nancy Ortberg had been at Willow Creek as pastors. And while youre at it, wed really appreciate it if you help us spread the word about the podcast by leaving a review and then please share the podcast on social media so more people can hear about this great content. So if you think of Willow as being a living thing, we are willing to put other things to death on the altar of preserving that organism. He even cites a conversation with Darrell Bock, a member who disagrees with the elders but who also says it is not an issue worth dividing over. Yeah, I just saw you ran a story on MacDonalds massive mansion in Illinois being held in the name of Vanilla Bean LLC. None at all. I mean, there were some things that you learned specifically, that were done to potentially cover wrongdoing by Bill Hybels. It was stunning to me. At the urging of a friend working in the radio industry, the Briscoes followed God's leading and used the tape sales proceeds to purchase local radio time, which launched Telling the Truth's radio outreach. I was the senior pastor of Bent Tree Bible Fellowship for nearly 30 years. So as we part ways, let us make the departure sweet. Because it was lawyers advice, you know, and its like, where does the word of God play into our decision making? How does our elder board navigate things differently with that Pastor? And you mentioned to me that there were some stop signs along the way. Pete Briscoe @petebriscoe 12 Dec 2021. Understanding & Overcoming Spiritual Abuse, Part II, Understanding & Overcoming Spiritual Abuse, Escaping & Healing from Abusive Churches, Part 2, https://world.wng.org/sites/default/files/issues/pdf/world_sep012018.pdf, https://www.billionbibles.com/voice-of-the-martyrs.html. But its an analog. Its something like Child Protection Policies. He is with us today to talk about growing communication skills to improve preaching as well as how we can find deeper fulfillment in our work and lives. I understand that the desire to have elders dealing with what Ill call Echelon or tier level, theological topics: What does the church think about, you know, for example, racial reconciliation? So Im guessing youre not against lawyers being on board. I dont agree with a lot of his views, but he said something and it is true, we need to have, you know, church leader needs to have two voices, one for gathering the sheep and one for scaring away wolves. Guest Bios Show Transcript Spiritual abuse has become an increasingly hot topic, as more and more stories of bully pastors and hyper-controlling, Guest Bios Show Transcript After years spent in an abusive church, how do you heal? Carrollton, TX for nearly 30 years so long leads a multi-faceted media ministry called Telling Truth! 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